WoW Wednesday​

Leadership is often mistaken for a series of battles to be won. Early in our careers, we are frequently conditioned to view negotiations, disagreements, and cross-functional friction through a competitive lens. We focus on asserting our authority, defending our turf, and coming out on top. But as organizations grow in scale and complexity, that “win at all costs” mindset quickly becomes a liability.

True enterprise growth doesn’t happen in a vacuum, nor does it thrive in an environment of total consensus. Real progress requires tension, but only if that tension is steered toward a common goal. When managing critical vendor relationships, navigating complex internal cross-functional rollouts, or aligning executive stakeholders, friction is inevitable. The defining characteristic of a mature leader isn’t the absence of conflict, rather it’s how they choose to handle it when it arrives.

“A great leader understands that conflict is not about winning; it’s about resolving.”

When you reframe conflict as an exercise in resolution rather than a contest for dominance, the entire dynamic shifts. Instead of viewing a challenging partner across the table or a differing internal department as an adversary to beat, you begin to see them as a collaborator facing a shared problem. Resolution preserves long-term alignment, protects trust, and keeps the focus firmly where it belongs: on business outcomes.

Modern Leadership

In today’s fast-moving landscape, no organization operates as an island, nor does any department operate in a silo. Our success relies heavily on complex networks of software vendors, implementation partners, franchisees, and internal cross-functional teams. Managing these relationships requires balancing high standards with long-term collaboration. When a critical project hits a wall or a key milestone is missed, the knee-jerk reaction might be to enforce penalties, point fingers, or assert leverage.

However, “winning” an argument with a strategic partner or an internal team often results in a hollow victory. You might gain short-term compliance, but at the cost of goodwill, innovation, and trust. Modern leadership requires moving past point-scoring to get to the root cause of friction:

• Shifting from Blame to Problem-Solving: Ask “What systemic gap caused this issue?” rather than “Who dropped the ball?”
• Bridging Internal Silos: Recognize that friction between internal departments (like IT, Operations, and Marketing) usually stems from competing metrics, not competing motives. Resolution means aligning incentives so everyone plays for the same score.
• Protecting the Long-Term Ecosystem: Recognize that crushing a partner’s margins or backing an internal team into a corner today will cost you their trust, flexibility, and priority tomorrow.
• Focusing on Mutual Value: Real resolution leaves both sides with a clear path forward, reinforcing relationships for future scale rather than leaving lingering resentment.
• Separating Expectations from Reality: Differentiate between a team or vendor failing due to negligence versus a scope misalignment caused by changing business requirements, and adjust the strategy accordingly.
• Creating Transparent Feedback Loops: Address small friction points early in candid, informal check-ins before they escalate into high-stakes contractual or organizational disputes.

Navigating these dynamics isn’t about giving up accountability or letting people off the hook. Rather, it is about recognizing that true governance (whether internal or external) is rooted in alignment, not intimidation. When leaders establish a standard where issues are dissected openly and fixed collaboratively, teams stop covering their tracks and start bringing real solutions to the table. Ultimately, effective leaders know that organizational relationships are marathons, not sprints. If the outcome of a conflict leaves the underlying trust fractured, nobody really won.

A Personal Reflection

Looking back on my own journey through complex enterprise transformations, this mind shift was one of the most critical lessons I ever learned. Early on, when high-stakes integrations hit friction or internal stakeholders pushed back on technical roadmaps, my immediate instinct was to double down on the blueprint, push harder, and demand compliance to “win” the point.

Over time, and through plenty of hard-earned experience and mentoring, I realized that enforcing a point often delayed the actual solution. The most successful turnarounds and smoothest rollouts I’ve led didn’t happen because we forced people into a corner. Instead they happened when we pulled internal leaders and vendor partners up to the whiteboard together, acknowledged the shared pain points, and focused entirely on solving the operational reality. Unlocking true enterprise alignment required putting ego aside and focusing strictly on the end vision.

From Friction to Momentum

At the end of the day, leadership isn’t measured by how many arguments you win, how firmly you hold your ground, or how impeccably you leverage leverage during a dispute. It’s measured by the strength of the ecosystem you build around you, the speed at which your teams recover from setbacks, and the shared value you create across organizational boundaries over time.

In enterprise environments, no major initiative is delivered alone. Every digital transformation, platform deployment, or operational scale-up relies on cross-functional alignment. When leaders default to combative tactics, they build brittle organizations where people fulfill only the bare minimum required to avoid blame and work in silos. But when you approach conflict with curiosity, transparency, and a commitment to genuine resolution, you convert friction into momentum. You build an ecosystem of teams and partners who are personally invested in mutual success and willing to go the extra mile when things inevitably get tough.

Book Recommendation

“Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High” By Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler, and Emily Gregory

Why read it: This book is an essential playbook for turning high-stakes friction into productive dialogue. It offers actionable frameworks for speaking persuasively (not abrasively), keeping dialogue safe when tempers flair, and guiding complex disagreements toward genuine resolution rather than defensive posturing.

In leadership, we tend to obsess over output. We measure key performance indicators, we optimize processes, and we fill calendars with status updates and alignment meetings. We treat communication as a broadcasting challenge, a test of how clearly we can articulate the vision, cascade goals, and direct the ship. But the reality of running a complex organization is that the most critical data points rarely arrive neatly formatted in a slide deck or spoken aloud in a crowded room.

The higher you climb in leadership, the more filtered the information around you becomes. People naturally polish their updates, soften the rough edges of bad news, and hesitate to voice half-formed but brilliant ideas out of fear of being judged. If you are only managing based on the explicit words spoken to you, you are operating with a massive blind spot. Exceptional leadership requires tuning into a different frequency entirely.

This challenge isn’t new, but it has never been more relevant. When we look at the friction points in scaling technology, integrating massive systems, or managing cross-functional teams, the root cause is almost never a lack of talk. It’s a lack of genuine decryption.

This brings us to a foundational truth captured by one of the sharpest minds in management history:

“The most important thing in communication is hearing what isn’t said.” — Peter Drucker

To lead effectively, we have to treat Drucker’s insight not just as a piece of abstract wisdom, but as an active operational strategy. It means recognizing that the real risks and the most innovative ideas are often buried beneath the surface of daily corporate dialogue. If we want to capture those insights before they are lost to corporate politeness or operational noise, we have to change how we engage.

From Philosophy to Architecture

Translating this philosophy into daily executive practice comes down to developing five core architectural habits in how we communicate.

Calling these communication patterns architectural habits shifts the entire framework from a soft skill to a hard operational discipline. Just like structural blueprints dictate how a physical building handles weight and stress, your communication habits dictate how your organization handles friction, bad news, and risk. These aren’t temporary tactics you deploy during a corporate crisis, rather they are foundational, repeatable routines designed into the way you show up to every single interaction. By viewing these habits as architecture rather than simple intuition, you intentionally engineer an environment where hidden truths are naturally drawn to the surface.

Here is how that architecture translates into daily leadership action:

• Reading the Room (and the Zoom): Pay attention to the sudden shifts in energy. When a normally vocal team member goes quiet during a project review, or when a proposal is met with polite compliance rather than active debate, that silence is an active response. It usually signals unvoiced skepticism, burnout, or a hidden roadblock.
• Listening for the Vulnerability: When a leader comes to you complaining about a tactical issue (like a minor vendor delay or a standard process friction) look beneath the surface. Often, the tactical complaint is just the safest way for them to signal a deeper strategic anxiety, a resource constraint, or a fear of missing a critical deadline.
• Encouraging the Uncomfortable Truths: If your team thinks you only want to hear solutions, they will hide the problems until they are too big to ignore. Hearing what isn’t said means actively probing the gaps. Ask the contrarian questions: “What are we deliberately choosing to ignore here?” or “If this project fails six months from now, what will have been the cause?”
• Deciphering the “Good News” Bias: In high-stakes environments, optimism is often used as a shield. When every status report is perfectly green but the underlying momentum feels sluggish (and is actually red), a leader has to listen to the cadence of execution rather than the reassurance of the report.
• Aligning Across the Silos: The unspoken truth isn’t just vertical, it’s horizontal. When collaborating with peers or cross-functional partners, the real friction rarely comes from open disagreement, it comes from the unarticulated differences in priorities, incentives, or timelines. True alignment happens when you actively listen for the unstated pressures your peers are facing and bridge the gap before the silos harden.

When you build these habits into your leadership rhythm, the entire dynamic of your organization changes. You stop reacting to crises after they blow up and start anticipating them while they are still quiet murmurs. More importantly, you build a culture where people realize they don’t have to camouflage the truth to protect themselves. The ultimate goal of hearing what isn’t said isn’t to play detective or catch people off guard, it is to prove to your organization that you respect them enough to look for the reality, not just the presentation.

Personal Reflection

Looking back at my own journey, I used to think that being an effective executive meant having the immediate answer to every problem walked into my office. I measured the success of a meeting by how efficiently we zipped through the agenda and how decisively I could direct the next steps. It took time, and a few painful lessons, to realize that speed can actually be the enemy of insight.

The turning point was learning to slow down the transition between a problem being stated and a decision being made. I started forcing myself to sit in the pauses, to let the silence hang for a beat or two after someone finished speaking. It’s amazing what people will share when you give them the space to fill the quiet. The most valuable strategic breakthroughs, the hidden operational risks, and the real cultural temperature of the team only came to light when I stopped trying to drive the conversation and started reading between the lines.

Closing Thoughts

Listening is not a passive act of compliance, it is a deliberate, active executive skill. It requires checking our egos at the door, turning off the internal monologue that is constantly drafting the next counter-argument, and showing up with genuine curiosity.

As you lead your teams through the rest of this week, challenge yourself to look at the spaces between the words. Pay attention to the hesitations, the unvoiced concerns, and the polite agreements. True competitive advantage doesn’t come from hearing what everyone else hears, it comes from having the presence and the patience to capture the unspoken truth.

Book Recommendation 📚

The Blueprint: The Advice Trap: Be Humble, Stay Curious & Change the Way You Lead Forever by Michael Bungay Stanier.

Why it’s worth your time: As leaders, our default wiring is to swoop in and fix things. Stanier labels this the “Advice Monster”—the instinct to immediately give answers the moment someone starts talking. This book is a masterclass in how to tame that instinct. It provides practical, actionable frameworks to help executives stay curious just a little bit longer and rush to action just a little bit slower. If you want to put Drucker’s quote into practice and build a culture of high accountability and deep trust, this is the operational manual to get you there.

Stepping into a new chapter in a career brings a unique blend of excitement, anticipation, and responsibility. It is a moment to look at the horizon, assess where one stands, and map out the journey ahead. In any organization, leadership isn’t about holding a title or occupying a seat at the table, rather, it is about establishing a foundational trust that allows every individual to bring their best self to work every day. As one begins a new journey, the primary focus is to ensure the cultivation of a culture rooted in transparency, support, and mutual respect.

To anchor this vision, it is valuable to return to a powerful philosophy that perfectly captures the essence of how to view the role of a leader within an organization. It serves as a compass for navigating challenges and celebrating victories as a collective unit.

“The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say thank you. In between, the leader is a servant.” — Max De Pree

This perspective reminds us that true leadership isn’t a position of privilege, but a posture of service. By understanding the current landscape clearly and supporting one another relentlessly, there is no limit to what can be achieved.

Connecting the Philosophy to Leadership

To truly understand how this philosophy operates in a high-performance culture, it can be broken down into five key pillars of daily leadership:

• Establishing the Ground Truth: Defining reality means looking at data, operational hurdles, and market conditions with absolute honesty. Leaders must resist the temptation to sugarcoat challenges, ensuring the team always operates from a place of clarity rather than assumptions.
• Removing Obstacles as a Servant: The “in-between” of leadership is purely operational support. A servant leader asks, “What is blocking your progress, and how can I clear it?” rather than simply demanding results.
• Fostering Psychological Safety: When a leader accurately defines reality, including admitting what they don’t know, it gives the team permission to be vulnerable, speak up about risks, and innovate without fear of failure.
• Distributing Accountability and Trust: Servant leadership isn’t micromanagement, it is empowerment. It means equipping the team with the right tools, aligning them with a shared vision, and trusting them to execute.
• Cultivating a Culture of Appreciation: Saying thank you isn’t a mere formality. Closing the loop with genuine gratitude reinforces that the ultimate success of the organization belongs entirely to the collective effort of the team.

Personal Reflection

For me, this quote isn’t just a theoretical concept; rather, it is the framework through which I view every professional interaction. Throughout my career leading technology organizations through major transformations, complex integrations, and periods of rapid scale, I have learned that talent thrives best when it is shielded from unnecessary noise and anchored by clear objectives. The commitment must always be to provide that clarity, defining the technical and strategic reality so a team can move forward with confidence.

A leader’s shadow should be one that provides cover and support, not one that casts darkness or creates hesitation. The role of a leader is ultimately to be an enabler of each person’s success. When platforms are robust, processes are seamless, and experiences are elevated, it is a testament to the team’s collective hard work. If a roadblock appears, it is on the leader to help navigate and recalibrate.

Culture is at its best when emotional intelligence and technical excellence move hand-in-hand. True leadership requires a commitment to continual learning, understanding individual strengths, and working together to drive a shared mission forward.

Tying It All Together

Ultimately, a leadership philosophy is only as good as the actions that back it up. Navigating immense professional opportunities requires a framework that keeps an organization’s feet planted firmly in data-driven reality, while keeping its eyes focused on innovative growth. High-performing teams must challenge one another, hold themselves to exceptional standards, and maintain an environment where every individual feels genuinely valued.

True progress comes from a collective commitment to defining reality with absolute candor, serving one another with humility, and celebrating shared victories with deep gratitude. When a team operates with that level of alignment, the journey ahead becomes a powerful vehicle for lasting impact and success.

Book Recommendation

“Leadership Is an Art” by Max De Pree

Since this week is anchored in De Pree’s wisdom, it is only fitting to recommend the book where this philosophy lives. Rather than focusing on rigid management mechanics, De Pree explores the human side of business, arguing that leadership is a craft woven from relationships, elegance, and trust. It is an essential read for anyone looking to understand how to build a high-performance, values-driven culture where people genuinely enjoy showing up to work.

In our fast-paced, achievement-oriented world, we often glorify the narrative of the self-made individual. We celebrate the executive who climbs the ladder, the innovator who disrupts an industry, or the leader who successfully navigates a major corporate turnaround. When milestones are reached or new chapters begin, the spotlight naturally falls on the person standing at the podium.

But this individualistic view of success is a mirage.

The reality of leadership is that no one arrives at a new destination alone. Every promotion, every successful project, and every professional transition is built upon a hidden foundation of collective effort, late-night collaborations, and the quiet support of a dedicated team. When we step into a new chapter, it is not just a personal victory, it is the culmination of a shared journey.

The legendary Althea Gibson captured this truth perfectly when she said:

“No matter what accomplishments you make, somebody helped you.”

For anyone navigating a transition, stepping into a new role, or simply looking to make a lasting impact, this truth serves as a powerful anchor. It reminds us that true leadership is rooted in humility and a deep appreciation for the network of relationships that propel us forward.

5 Core Principles: How Interconnectedness Defines Great Leadership

To truly embody a servant-leadership mindset, we must understand how this philosophy translates into our daily actions and organizational culture. Here are five distinct ways this principle shapes impactful leadership:

1. Deflecting Credit and Absorbing Blame

A true leader understands that they are a mirror for credit and a shield for blame. When things go right, an impactful leader immediately shines the light on the team members who executed the vision. Conversely, when obstacles arise, they take full accountability. Acknowledging that “somebody helped you” means realizing that your primary job is to elevate others, not yourself.

2. Cultivating a Culture of Shared Ownership

When a team knows that their contributions are genuinely recognized, their investment in the mission changes. They shift from doing a job to owning a vision. Leaders who recognize their interconnectedness don’t build silos; they build collaborative ecosystems where every voice matters and every win belongs to the collective group.

3. Actively Managing the “Leader’s Shadow”

As leaders, our actions, words, and attitudes cast a long shadow across an organization. If we act as though we achieved success in a vacuum, we breed a culture of internal competition and isolation. If we cast a shadow of gratitude and humility, we foster an environment where people feel safe to collaborate, innovate, and support one another.

4. Investing in the Success of Others (Paying It Forward)

Recognizing that others helped you creates a moral obligation to do the same for the next generation of talent. Servant leadership is defined by mentorship and sponsorship. Your legacy is not defined by what you built, but by the leaders you developed and empowered to succeed long after you have moved on.

5. Building Resilient Ecosystems Over Fragile Empires

Leaders who try to do everything themselves build fragile structures that collapse the moment they step away. By leaning into the strengths of the collective team, you build a resilient, decentralized ecosystem. True organizational strength lies in the seamless orchestration of diverse talents working toward a singular purpose.

Personal Reflection: Keeping Ego in Check

Whenever I find myself at a crossroads or celebrating a professional milestone, I am reminded of how vital it is to keep ego out of the driver’s seat. It is incredibly easy to let the noise of a new opportunity obscure the gratitude we owe to the past.

Every time I look back at the most significant achievements of my career, I don’t see a list of personal accolades. Instead, I see faces. I see the teams who solved late-night system crises, the operators who executed complex strategies flawlessly, and the mentors who gave me hard feedback when I needed it most. Keeping this perspective close to heart is what keeps us grounded. It transforms a transition from a moment of self-congratulation into a moment of profound gratitude.

Honoring the Past to Fuel the Future

Stepping into any new chapter requires a deliberate balancing act. It demands that we look forward with bold ambition while simultaneously looking back with immense appreciation. We cannot successfully build the future if we forget the people and the lessons that formed our foundation.

To anyone preparing for a new start, embarking on a new project, or leading a team through change: take a moment to look around. Acknowledge the hands that helped build the ladder you climbed. Carry their dedication with you as an inheritance of a great example, and use it to inspire the culture you build next.

True success is never a solo sport. It is a collaborative masterpiece.

Book Recommendation

• Title: Dare to Serve: How to Drive Superior Results by Serving Others
• Author: Cheryl Bachelder

Why read it: Written by the former CEO of Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen, this book is an executive’s playbook that completely debunks the myth that servant leadership is “soft.” Bachelder provides a road-tested framework showing how shifting the spotlight away from yourself and actively serving your teams (such as franchise operators, engineers, and front-line staff) is actually a powerful competitive advantage that drives massive operational turnaround and bottom-line results. It’s a perfect read for any leader focused on balancing deep humility with high-stakes execution.

Let’s start today with a scenario or story that might sound familiar. While the names have been stripped to protect the innocent, this isn’t a hypothetical situation. It’s a story playing out in offices across the hospitality and restaurant industry right now.

A brand pours millions of dollars and countless hours into launching a proprietary, all-in-one mobile app, only to watch the performance data point toward a disaster. App abandonment is skyrocketing, guests are complaining about a cluttered user interface, and field teams are completely overwhelmed trying to troubleshoot a dozen different digital features that nobody actually wants to use. The leadership team finds itself trapped in a classic operational nightmare, trying to force a bloated, broken system to work by simply pulling the implementation levers harder and demanding more staff training.

Then, they do something entirely counterintuitive. They stop looking at why the total platform is failing and start looking at where guests are actually finding value. In doing so, they notice a tiny, overlooked pattern: customers aren’t using the app to browse loyalty tiers, read brand stories, or customize complex profiles. They only use it for one specific thing: to quickly and simply reorder their favorite meal for pickup. By twisting the lens just a fraction of an inch, the entire problem transforms. They strip away the digital noise, streamline the interface around frictionless ordering, and watch their digital capture rate double in a matter of months.

The ingredients of the business didn’t change. The market didn’t change. The leaders changed. It’s a vivid reminder of a truth that takes years in hospitality, restaurants, and technology to fully appreciate: most complex business problems are not solved by working harder; they are solved by seeing differently. Over the years, I’ve noticed that some of the biggest breakthroughs don’t come from new technology, bigger budgets, or larger teams. They come from a fundamental shift in clarity.

Wayne Dyer captured this reality perfectly:

“If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” – Wayne Dyer

The Trap of Proximity

The challenge is that leadership environments often reward immediate action far more than reflection. When something isn’t working, our gut instinct is to move faster, add resources, create another initiative, or invest in yet another solution. Sometimes that is exactly what is required, but often it isn’t. One of the most common patterns I’ve observed throughout my career is what I call the trap of proximity. The closer we are to an active problem, the more likely we are to misdiagnose it.

We’ve all experienced these symptoms in the field. A technology project falls behind schedule, and the immediate assumption is that execution is the bottleneck. A digital initiative struggles with user adoption, so the assumption is that marketing simply needs to work harder. Sales decline, and we immediately conclude that traffic is the primary issue.

Yet, when you step back and examine the situation objectively, the root cause is often somewhere else entirely. The project wasn’t delayed because of poor execution, it was delayed because priorities were never fully aligned at the top. The digital initiative wasn’t struggling because guests didn’t know it existed, it was struggling because it wasn’t solving a meaningful customer problem. Sales weren’t declining because traffic mysteriously disappeared, they were declining because the daily experience no longer matched customer expectations. The symptoms were very visible, but the cause was completely obscured.

The Dance Floor and the Balcony

One of my favorite leadership concepts comes from Ronald Heifetz, who describes leadership as the constant ability to “move between the dance floor and the balcony”. The dance floor is where most leaders spend the most of their time. It’s where the noise of daily operations lives (the endless emails, escalations, tight deadlines, budget crunches, vendor challenges, and immediate customer complaints). The dance floor is necessary because businesses cannot operate without execution, but the danger lies in becoming permanently trapped there. When you’re standing on the dance floor, everything feels urgent, every challenge feels significant, and every minor setback feels vastly larger than it actually is.

The balcony offers a completely different view. From the balcony, the noise clears and actual patterns begin to emerge. You begin to see clear relationships between issues that previously appeared completely unrelated. You recognize recurring operational behaviors, identify bottlenecks that have quietly existed for years, and notice that multiple distinct problems may actually share a single, common cause.

The most effective executive leaders possess an unusual ability to move seamlessly between these two perspectives. They can zoom into the details when absolute precision is required, and zoom out when strategic clarity is needed. They understand that great leadership is not about choosing one perspective over the other, it’s about knowing when to use each one.

Why Constraints Often Create Innovation

Perspective becomes even more critical when resources become limited. Most organizations view constraints as obstacles, but I’ve increasingly come to view them as strategic advantages. When budgets are abundant, organizations often default to solving problems with capital. If they need a new capability, they buy it; if they need more capacity, they add headcount. While there is nothing inherently wrong with those approaches, the problem is that abundance can easily hide operational inefficiency. Scarcity, on the other hand, exposes it.

When resources become limited, leaders are forced to ask significantly better questions. We have to ask ourselves: What truly matters? What actually creates the most value? What can be simplified, and what should we stop doing entirely?

Some of the most innovative digital capabilities I’ve seen emerged when teams didn’t have the luxury of unlimited resources. Constraints forced focus, focus drove creativity, and that creativity ultimately produced meaningful innovation. In many cases, the limitation itself became the team’s greatest competitive advantage.

The Lens Your Team Borrows

There is a final, vital reason why perspective matters: whether we realize it or not, your team borrows your lens. Leaders are constantly teaching their people how to interpret events through their own moods, actions, and reactions. When an operational challenge emerges, your reaction becomes immediate information for the rest of the organization. If you view every setback as an existential crisis, your team will eventually do the same; if you view every obstacle as an opportunity to iterate, that mindset spreads just as quickly.

People watch leaders much more closely during difficult moments than successful ones. When uncertainty rises, they aren’t simply looking for immediate answers, they are looking for signals. They are trying to determine whether a challenge should be feared, solved, or embraced. The perspective you choose to operate from ultimately becomes a foundational part of your culture.

A Question Worth Asking

The next time you encounter a significant operational roadblock or a technology initiative that seems stuck, pause before searching for an immediate solution. Ask yourself a different set of questions:

• Am I looking at this from the right perspective?
• Am I standing too close to the problem?
• Am I missing something because I am focused on symptoms instead of causes?
• Do I need to step off the floor and onto the balcony?

In my experience, some of the most impactful leadership decisions happen long before a single solution is identified. They happen the exact moment a leader realizes they’ve been looking at the situation through the wrong lens. The facts haven’t changed, and the resources haven’t changed, but the perspective has. And sometimes, that is enough to change everything.

Book Recommendation 📚

“The Obstacle Is the Way” by Ryan Holiday

One of the reasons this book consistently resonates with me is that its central message aligns with a lesson I’ve seen repeatedly throughout my career: obstacles are often opportunities disguised as problems. The leaders who consistently create breakthrough results are rarely the ones with the fewest challenges. They’re the ones who learn to see challenges differently. Sometimes the obstacle isn’t standing in the way, sometimes it is the way.